This week, the Angels on Fire share our goal to travel to the SLC Sunstone Symposium this summer to bring the experience back to you, our listeners! Colleen and Miranda continue to bring you more Tips for First Time Drinkers. Next, Colleen summarizes the Hoax NAACP Apology Scandal that has rocked both the Faithful and Post Mormon communities and made national news headlines. Please refer to the live Facebook video by Zandra Vranes of Sistas in Zion for her passionate and vulnerable response, link in the show notes. And of course, we bring you more Mormon Sex Myths!! Don’t miss our bonus material on Patreon and please consider supporting us in our coverage of Sunstone this summer! Cheers!
Links mentioned in this episode:
- Zandra Vranes, Sistas in Zion LIVE Facebook Video
- SLTribune: No, The Mormon Church did not apologize for a history of racism
- Hoax Mormon Newsroom NAACP Nelson Apology Press Release
- Actual Mormon Newsroom NAACP Joint Statement Release
- Boyd K Packer: To the Young Men Only, aka The Little Factories Address
Musical excerpts in this episode can be found at Bensound.com
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I’m pretty sure black Mormons knew how they felt about the lack of apology before the hoax happened. They didn’t need some ExMo to enlighten them. They have their own reasons for staying in the church. I may not agree with them, but that doesn’t justify playing with their hopes in order to prove a point.
There was a point in the podcast where it sounded like you two were justifying the hoax a bit, with the implication that black Mormons who were upset should really look at why they stay in a racist institution, and then leave. I don’t think it’s appropriate for non-blacks to tell black people how to feel/act with regard to racial issues, so I hope that’s not what you meant.
I remember reading an interview with Gladys Knight where she answered the inevitable, “Why would you belong to a church with such a racist history?” question. Knight pointed out that almost every institution in the United States has a racist history—including the country itself—and as such it simply wasn’t possible (or necessarily desirable) for her to extricate herself from or disown all these institutions. For her, the LDS Church holds unique teachings—the Restoration , the Book of Mormon, and eternal families—that ring to her as true and that she can’t get elsewhere. I don’t believe in those things, so it’s no hardship for me to not be a member of the church. But with people who believe, we can’t just expect them to leave on the basis of flaws that permeate American society.
Thank you, Dale, for this feedback! You are exactly right, and I believe the comment you are referring to was Miranda, so I will let her respond to that directly. We did have a much more in-depth conversation about Blacks and Mormonism in earlier episodes 18 & 19 with our guest Julian Jesse. I agree that we cannot tell people they should leave Mormonism, or even demand that they tell us why they chose to stay active in the LDS Church. I know in the episode, I mentioned that I hope the reaction to this hoax has an impact on white Mormons and that we all recognize an area that we were blind to before, specifically how a hoax of this nature deeply hurts Black Mormons, they are the ones ultimately left holding the pain. And I hope we can all do better, lift up the voices of those who are hurting and marginalized, and stop adding to the pain ourselves. I did cringe in listening back to this episode, and I am sorry and embarrassed for a comment I did make. I mentioned how Black Mormons felt after this hoax was a shitty thing for sure, BUT I was grateful for what I have learned and become more aware of as a result of the hoax. I am deeply sorry for that comment. Black Mormons should not have to be hurt for me to become aware of their painful experiences, and I am sorry I expressed gratitude for this hoax being created. That was a very wrong thing for me to say or feel. I know that now. I will do better.
Thank you for beginning a very important conversation here.
Dale THANK YOU for your comment. Real dialogue with real people is always icing on the cake. I really don’t want my emotions here to be misinterpreted, so I’ll just tell you, I’m not angrily typing this trying to defend myself. I love having conversations about hard topics, so I hope you envision me in a leather chair with a glass of whiskey enjoying the conversation. Your entire first paragraph is specifically talked about in our episode with Julian Jesse, a black former mormon and I’d love your thoughts on that as well!
I should have used different wording and I’m sorry. You’re right, Mormons DON’T need anyone “enlightening” them, Johnathan Streeter, me, Colleen, or any other person let alone an ex-mormon.
I should have said in this episode that everyone deals with this issue differently but that personally I cannot relate staying in the church concerning these issues. I’ll add that I probably am biased because I’m an ex-mormon and when I see people being harmed in the church I wish they would leave because who needs that shit. But it’s much more complicated than that, no one needs someone else “enlightening” them, and I apologize if I came off that way it was un-intentional. And to reply to your first sentence, yes, they do, however I know exactly how easy it is to bury and ignore those thoughts and feelings that something is off with the church, and this satire apology is something to bring attention to the issue (Streeter’s admitted motive). I see why you got the impression where we sounded like we were justifying it. I think bringing light to dark issues is a good thing concerning the LDS church, however to set the record straight I do not condone this method of shedding light. There are many other ways to bring attention to an issue without deeply hurting so many people. I hoped my very first thought on the matter in the episode would have made that clearer.
As was discussed in episode 19 (with Julian) white people can talk about these issues and their opinions surrounding them, and also just because a black person was okay with the racist history and current mindset, or just because a black person is fine ignoring it and still attending church, does not make it right (a response told to me by Julian about black people being okay with the history). I never assumed how black people were feeling about the issue, I went out and asked and watched videos and read their own words. I do not recall telling people of color they should do anything, but rather questioned their actions and weighed my own opinions. Opinions that I do share with people who are black. However, again I apologize, I obviously was perceived in a holier than thou light trying to save all the black people from the evil evil church lol, it was not my intent.
In response to your last paragraph I do not agree at all. This only refers to the history of racism and speaks of other spheres and places avoiding the main question and topic. Most of those other places have apologized and denounce their old racist views or actions. The LDS church’s response to their racist history is that it was God’s word and now its changed thank goodness. Not only is there no proper apology or denouncement from the church on this issue but CURRENT mindsets and beliefs are completely racist. To me that is the difference, that it is a modern-day problem that is still hurting the black community.
In response to your last sentence, I would not judge someone for staying for whatever reason they have (a feeling I think I miscommunicated in the episode). However, I decided while fully believing in the LDS doctrine that I would not continue to attend based on how the church feels and treats their LGBTQ members and community. It was incredibly hard, painful, and confusing but I did just that. Left the church on the basis of flaws that permeate American society. So it is absolutely possible to do it. I then found the CES letter and the rest is history.
Again, THANK YOU FOR COMMENTING! It means the episode struck a chord with you. Of course next time I hope I’m not coming off as offensive lol.
-Miranda Crandall